Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

> I'm not saying Google is incredible (my opinion is quite the contrary actually). However, I am saying Apple is holding the web back, in a fairly annoying way, for developers.

Right. Because Google, who dominates the entire web standards spectrum, is known for creating well thought-out, well-designed APIs that take into consideration concerns and criticism, and thinking long-term of the web as a whole.

Oh wait, they don't. Up to and including the point where both Mozilla and Safari are saying they won't implement certain functionality because of glaring holes in the design, and Chrome not only shipping the features, but making them GA.

Oh, and yes. Most of the "Safari is holding back web developers" talk is bullshit, of course. It actually should read "Chrome releases APIs at neck breaking speed with zero concerns for the future of the web." See web API counts in major browsers: https://web-confluence.appspot.com/#!/confluence



> Up to and including the point where both Mozilla and Safari are saying they won't implement certain functionality because of glaring holes in the design, and Chrome not only shipping the features, but making them GA.

I feel this is being dismissed by many people, but there's a lot of truth in this statement. Here's an example of this at play:

https://twitter.com/Rich_Harris/status/1220412711768666114

Chrome devrels and cheerleaders pile on Safari and Firefox all the time for not adhering to Chrome's agenda and frame it as "holding the web back." But the true thing that holds the web back is a browser monoculture.


Why, then, did it take safari so long to implement ServiceWorkers? I believe they were the last of major browsers to implement it. And they landed the feature more than 2 years after Firefox!

Also, why was Safari's IndexedDB feature released nearly 4 years after the other major browsers? And when released it, why was it full of bugs that simple test cases would have caught?

I don't want to fuel conspiracies, but the pattern is fairly obvious. Apple appears to resist progress in Web APIs.


> Why, then, did it take safari so long to implement ServiceWorkers? > Also, why was Safari's IndexedDB feature released

Priorities. Safari's team isn't as big as Chrome's.

> but the pattern is fairly obvious.

The only obvious pattern is the link I provided. And things like this:

- Chrome releasing APIs even when other vendors are against: https://twitter.com/Rich_Harris/status/1220412711768666114

- Chrome sabotaging competitors with shady practices: http://archive.is/tgIH9

and there are many many many more examples of this behaviour.


What about Firefox? Is Safari's team smaller than Firefox's as well?

Looking at this page: https://webkit.org/team/ and comparing it to https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox/Team/whois would suggest otherwise.

Do you have numbers from elsewhere to back up that claim?

Btw, I'm not saying Google are right to power through with poorly designed APIs either, but when there is a standard in place, why Safari takes sooo long to implement it is perplexing (or perhaps just a rather obvious strategy).


> Is Safari's team smaller than Firefox's as well?

Unknown

> but when there is a standard in place, why Safari takes sooo long to implement it is perplexing

Some standards are so bad, even Chrome ends up deprecating them (see Custom Elements v0).

Or they just go out of favor (see HTML Imports).

Or they are so poorly specified that even years after "becoming a standard" they have things like "this section is not specified yet" in their texts. And the status of these "standards" is often not above "Candidate Recommendation" (that is it is gathering implementation experience, and yes, that refers to Service Workers).

BTW Service Workers were moved to Candidate Recommendation about half a year ago: https://github.com/w3c/ServiceWorker/issues/1460 ("Double check everyone is happy with v1 going to CR.")

So yeah, I don't know what to say. Safari isn't chasing every API under the sun? Good for them. Web Devs assuming that whatever's in Chrome is the be all end all standards on the web? Bad for the web and for the devs. Apple possibly not prioritising Safari? Bad for the web as well.




Consider applying for YC's Summer 2026 batch! Applications are open till May 4

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: